Profound humanity and theatrical drama go hand in hand in Bluebeard’s Castle

Director Kenza Koutchoukali and scenographer, costume, and lighting designer Yannick Verweij have been working together on Béla Bartók’s Bluebeard’s Castle for months. Yet, they’re far from running out of things to say about the opera. They sit down to interview each other, discussing their inspirations, ambitions, and the humanity within the work.

Yannick: “What’s the main challenge for you in directing Bluebeard’s Castle again?”

Kenza: “I find it a challenge to depict the intimacy and humanity of the relationship between Bluebeard and Judith. I want the audience in the theatre to feel like they’re part of the situation, maybe even sitting too close to it.”
Yannick: “That’s why we’ve placed the set – the homely living room – so far forward on the stage.” Kenza: “Exactly. At the same time, as a spectator, you can see the whole situation, unlike Judith and Bluebeard, who are right in the middle of it. We literally magnify certain aspects of the action so that we can use theatrical drama to show what’s happening between Bluebeard and Judith and how it feels.” Yannick: “We have a spiderweb-like structure that lets enlarged objects drop into the set, zooming in on what’s unfolding between Bluebeard and Judith. They become entangled in their patterns, in their relationship.”

Kenza: “I think the set looks beautiful. How have you brought the characters to life through your scenography?”

Yannick: “In our first discussions, we talked about the paintings of Edward Hopper. His work feels both abstract and incredibly concrete. You’re right up close to it, and yet it feels still and desolate in a way. I really wanted to capture that atmosphere visually in the set. I’ve consciously and unconsciously drawn inspiration from these paintings. I only realised much later that the colour palette I chose is also similar to Hopper’s. Bluebeard is dressed in elegant, cool tones – like navy – which blend well with the green of his castle, where he feels at home. Meanwhile, Judith, with her warm autumnal colours, will never fit into his world because she always stands out against the green backdrop.”

Yannick: “What aspect of Bluebeard’s Castle do you find the most complex to portray?”

Kenza: “I always find the grey areas in characters the most interesting, but they’re also open to interpretation. Of course, I bring my own ideas about Bluebeard and Judith to the table. But how do Thomas and Deirdre see it? They’re the ones who will be bringing the roles to life. I have strong views on Bluebeard’s inability to connect, which manifests as dominance, and as a woman, I naturally lean towards siding with Judith. But on the other hand, Judith also has her own shortcomings. She’s determined to break him open to make the relationship work. Is it right for her to do that, or is it selfish? For me, they’re both equally complex.”
Yannick: “The interplay between the two characters is so fascinating and complex at the same time. Certain traits in both Bluebeard and Judith drive the power dynamics between them. They struggle, clash, and try to find each other; that human interplay makes the opera so thrilling.”

Kenza: “The relationship between Bluebeard and Judith is indeed incredibly human. How do you view their relationship from your own experiences?”

Yannick: “What touches me personally is that constant effort to find each other. I can relate to wanting to discover at what point you can connect with someone, wanting to figure out who you are with the other person, wanting to understand each other. And I understand the pain when that doesn’t work out. And you?”
Kenza: “I recognise the patterns you can fall into together. It can feel comfortable, but you can also get stuck in a pattern that comes at the expense of both yourself and the other person. It’s precisely that humanity in intimate relationships that I hope will pull the audience in, partly through recognition and partly through the theatrical drama.”

Interview: Kyra Bertram